How did you start making art?
‘What I always wanted to do, was to create a different beauty aesthetic. In Los Angeles where I grew up, I was told to dye my hair blond, lose twenty pounds and get plastic surgery - then I could be on tv. It was all very hateful, misogynous. They didn’t tell a girl to be a surfer or a scientist. But luckily I was good at drawing, so I got into arts school and left LA to go to New York.’
What happened in New York?
‘I first came to New York in 1979, at 17 years old. People often come to New York to change the world through art. For me it was about creating a new identity and creating a new vocabulary of beauty that was misunderstood in other places. When I arrived, I learned about silent Super8 films through Jack Smith, an extreme filmmaker that lived a few blocks away from me. I had a part in his film Shadows in the City. I decided to take film classes myself at the Millennium Film Archives, and that’s where I had my first show: Films by Kembra Pfahler. Filmmaker Mike Kuchar, who taught the course, described my film as ‘voluptuously horrific’. I loved that. The Kuchar brothers inspired John Waters, who was also a big source of inspiration to me. So, in the 80’s I made many films.’
And this description inspired your band name The Voluptuous Horror of Karen Black, a band that is often described as ‘shock rock’.
‘I would not call it shock rock myself. If I had to name what we do I would go with theatrical music project. The films were silent, so we decided to make soundtracks for them. Around 1990 I started the band The Voluptuous Horror of Karen Black together with my husband at that time, Samoa Moriki. We booked our first show at the Pyramid Club - we started playing rock music, combined with art performance on stage. More than anything I wanted to contribute with work that had never been seen before. Now that we are no longer married, we still play together, and some of the band members have been with us for a long time. We will come to the Netherlands with Gyda Gash and Michael Wildwood, with whom we have been playing together for a very long time. We all have other projects, other bands and art projects. We’ve had a very adventurous band career. Not only do we perform at rock clubs around the country, but we also do academic things like performing at the Whitney Museum. What we all have in common is that we intend to change the world, one performance at a time.’
You often use your own body as a part of your artwork.
‘When I started making art, I was often asked what kind of art I was making. I came up with the term ‘availablism’: making the best use of what was available, so my own body and ideas, and whatever materials I had around me. It was a way to break away from needing art supplies. That’s how I come up with my acts, for example: cracking colored eggs on my vagina while standing on my head. I had an egg available in the fridge, and I can stand on my head. I love the Oscar Wilde quote: “an egg is always an adventure.”
The nudity and desire to show my body, started out from feeling ugly and ashamed. Instead of waiting for some man to say he wanted me to be his model, I decided to be my own muse. I learned to love my body, and to use it – not in an adult sexual way - but to show a different kind of beauty. I’ve never wanted to do anything with my body unless it was extremely performative.’
Talking about extremes, there was a time when you sewed your vagina shut as an art project. Why did you do that?
‘I did it because I was very angry at the majority of men ruling the world. And it was a very powerful image I wanted to make. I only did it once and it had nothing to do with fetish. The women that helped me do it, were nurses, so it was done very carefully. The photo appeared in Penthouse magazine. I still think that was the best “fuck you” I ever said in my life. It was published because it was art; it was shocking and beautiful at the same time. It was meaningful because it grossed out people that were expecting something else. The men that saw me, told me they were very intrigued and didn’t know whether to throw up, or hang it on the wall. I created a conversation.’
Do you often intend to shock or scare people with your work?
‘I do think horror is an artform that can be prophetic. It can clue you in to conversations on topics that need to be spoken about, such as misogyny and repression. Maybe I look hard sometimes, but my desire is to spread both horror and joy through music and imagery. To be able to perform is a luxury, and creativity is a gift, so to share that, is fun! I may wear black make-up and I may be standing on my head cracking eggs on my vagina, but I still consider my show appropriate for all ages, as long as the parents take responsibility. They will need to explain: “This woman is an artist and she is using her body in a way that is not hurting her or anyone else, but it’s not a good idea to try it at home.” Kids love our shows because of the colors and costumes. They can sense that we are not out to harm anyone. They feel the joy.’
Together with ANOHNI, Johanna Constantine and CocoRosie you created the Future Feminist’s art program that will be shown here in June, including an exhibition of the 13 tenets you created together. Has this process influenced the way you see feminism?
‘I am very happy the stones will be exhibited in Amsterdam; they are very beautiful and the thirteen tenets written on them are very powerful. Feminism is in our bones and what is needed or possible changes with time. Sometimes our bones are broken and we need to heal them, and sometimes they are strong and healthy and we can jump and run. There is a vast degression of women’s rights in the United States right now, and it’s shocking. It feels like the wild west, where women are once again reduced to child bearers or whores. The misogyny is rampant. At the same time there is a strong push-back from a young generation trying to eradicate misogyny, and for us all to learn how to exist together. ‘
What can we expect from your show The way we are?
‘It’s called The way we are, referencing the title of a movie by Barbara Streisand The way we were. I prefer to live in the now. I made up the word ‘yesterbating’ to illustrate the tendency we have to obsessively cling to the past. I try not to be romantically nostalgic. But I still do some of my older performances as well. In Amsterdam we are going to do a beautiful show in a beautiful space. I make all the props and costumes myself. One of my first costumes was a big flowerhead that my mother made me for a spring pageant. I’ve been doing that performance since 1981. I might do a very colorful egg ceremony, but I have not decided yet. Let’s keep it a surprise: “will they do their greatest hits?”’
You also teach art to young people, and will be organizing a workshop here in Amsterdam.
‘Performance 101 is a class that gives young artists tools to work on their own projects. I started it because a lot of young creative people get blocked. This workshop gives you tools to unblock and to be happy and productive. Amongst the tools I share is stream of consciousness writing. We talk about communication skills, and we draw our ideas - I love seeing people’s penmanship and we do drawing. Everybody can draw. Ultimately we do performances for each other, or for an audience, if the group chooses so. I am strongly against artistic competition. Most of all everybody should feel free to do what they want, and use whatever it is that is available to them. Availablism is about what is available in your surroundings as well as in your head. This is what I teach. Do you know the word liminality? It is a wonderful word to know. It means we can create the right temperature to make that ritual happen.’